When I say "first standard order", I am referring to the first sequence of the 21 standard subjects that we are all familiar with: the first standard tarot deck, which spread throughout Italy in the mid-15th century. When I say "all the evidence points to the Hanged Man being the 13th trump" in that...

Nathaniel wrote, Which trump was number 13 before everyone started putting Death in that position? The Hanged Man. No need for that assumption. And it goes against the main tradition, which was that Judas was “the 12th disciple” First, it's not just an "assumption" that the Hanged Man was number 13...

(What follows is something that occurred to me a couple of months ago. I was going to incorporate it into a larger theory about the early trump sequence, but I need to do a lot more work before I feel comfortable presenting anything like that, so I figured I may as well put this out there now.) I wa...

I see two problems. One is that you haven't explained what there is about that story that makes it more believable than the reverse, that the "equal papi" rule was first, and when different localities decided to rank them, they made different choices. Well, I think I have explained it, it's just th...

And thanks also to Nathaniel, although I still have a hard time understanding. He wrote: So it really is very hard to believe that someone would invent a game at that time with such a weirdly interrupted hierarchy as a central feature. But it is considerably easier to imagine it being a modificatio...

For Nathaniel: why is it not just as likely that the disorder among dignitaries, rather than as a cause of the "equal papi" rule, occurred as a result of it, the later ranking of dignitaries everywhere except in Bologna and Piedmont done differently in different places because earlier there was no ...

... it is impossible for both Bolognese players and Piedmont/Savoy players to have independently invented these rules, Therefore they were at the origin of one or both games. ... the only plausible conclusion is that this rule was in the common origin of the games played in both places. Since Bolog...

To me the "oddness" is a mark in its favor, rather than the opposite. Especially since it is found in two unrelated places. The principle in textual criticism, when you have various manuscripts with different readings, is that "lectio difficilior potior," or "the more difficult reading is the stron...

About your explanation of the "equal papi" rule, Nathaniel, I see a few problems. First, everywhere else seems to have managed to come up with hierarchies they could agree on, at least at that time and place. It isn't that hard. What is different about Bologna? I wasn't suggesting that Bologna was ...

Added later: as far as the second emperor looking like a morphed empress, Nathaniel, if you look at the kings, you will see that there are two types: young, beardless, with the head cocked to one side, and older and bearded. The two emperors might simply reflect the two types. Sorry for the late re...